The Gay/Lesbian Delusion

111 thoughts on “The Gay/Lesbian Delusion”

1. Steve,

   Thanks for your reply

2. Hey Mohammad, you are as gay as the they come. Come on admit to it. Get out of the closet and take a breath.

3. Hey Billy,

   You said “Also, I believe some males, espiecally now days, may have a thought about the same sex, and it may lead them to think they are gay. And, if they continue to entertain that thought, before you know it they come out saying, I must be gay cause I think about other men. ”

   I agree….i think this is one of the main reasons why some might think they are gay……they might wonder why they are thinking about the same sex so much and might think they are gay or something……and that is how they might actually become gay…

   For e.g. If a person looks at a pic of the same sex, and think the person is good looking, and you probably wish u had the same body or same eyes or watever… and this could ending up making them wonder that they might be gay……

   If you think a certain same gender celebrity or athlete is beautiful or handsome….you might have excessive thoughts, and you might wrongly interpret that you might be gay….

   Just cuz you think of it doesn’t mean you are gay…

   Here is an example to prove this point….if a person have wrong, inappropriate or evil thoughts…and we all do from time to time….doesn’t mean you are a bad person or anything UNLESS YOU CARRY OUT THE ACTION……..(obviously you should try to control your thoughts as much as possible, bcz that is what leads you to Action)……..but the REALITY is you are not that person until you COMMIT the ACT….

   Here is a good quote…

   “Sow a thought, and you reap an act; Sow an act, and you reap a habit; Sow a habit, and you reap a character; Sow a character, and you reap a destiny” –  Charles Reade

4. I am now 53 years old and I have given this subject much thought thoroughout my life.

   I was raised in a house with 8 women. My mother and my 7 sisters.

   I did not really know my father and I only saw him less than 6 times in my life. I did not have much male influnce as a youth.

   Growing up I Hung out with my male neighborhood running buddies and I never, ever felt or thought I was gay.

   Sure I went through the stage of whose got the biggest prick in the mens locker room growing up, but I never wanted to sleep with no man.

   I love women, although I was quite shy around the ladies when I was young.

   Now, I do believe molestation can have a bad effect on a child and cause confusion on sexual oreintation as one matures, if they do not get any help along the way.

   Also, I believe some males, espiecally now days, may have a thought about the same sex, and it may lead them to think they are gay.

   And, if they continue to entertain that thought, before you know it they come out saying, I must be gay cause I think about other men.

   How else can you explain a man that has been married 20 years to the same women, raised his children and seemly out of no where he is suddenly gay and wants to sleep with another man.

   This men loving and sleeping with other men, and women sleeping with other women is deeper than we know, and is more on a spiritual level.

   As a man and knowing how we men sometimes can be a little uncuth, with regards to cleaness. I can’t imagine getting it on with another man.

5. I wanted to add to my previous post…..

   Holy Qur’an is NOT an inspired book……..it is the ACTUAL WORDS of GOD……..the ACTUAL WORDS…….

   Here are a few Verses from the Holy Qur’an to show you that they are actual words and not a human’s words or not a book that is inspired…

   1) You will be tested in your wealth and in yourselves and you will hear many abusive words from those given the Book before you and from those who are idolaters. But if you are steadfast and guard against evil, that is the most resolute course to take. (Qur’an, 3:186)

   2) Or did you suppose that you would enter Paradise without facing the same as those who came before you? Poverty and illness afflicted them, and they were shaken to the point that the Messenger and those who had faith with him said: “When is Allah’s help coming?” Be assured that Allah’s help is very near. (Surat al-Baqara, 214)

   3) No indeed! But you love this fleeting world and you disregard the Hereafter. (Quran – Surat al-Qiyama, 20-21)

   4) And surely We shall try you with something of fear and hunger, and loss of wealth and lives and crops; but give glad tidings to the patient, Who says, when afflicted with calamity: “To Allah We belong, and to Him is our return”: They are those on whom (descend) Blessings from Allah, and Mercy, and they are the ones that receive guidance. (Quran – Al-Baqarah 2:155-157)

   The Holy Qur’an are the actual words of God……

   Now here is the interesting part…….we believe in the ORIGINAL BIBLE AND ORIGINAL TORAH…the ones that were revealed at that time to people but not today’s Bible or Torah)…..bcz they have become “changed” or “corrupted” due to people’s desires…..

   And We sent Jesus son of Mary following in their footsteps, confirming the Torah that came before him. We gave him the Gospel containing guidance and light, confirming the Torah that came before it, and as guidance and admonition for those who guard against evil. (Holy Qur’an – Surat al-Ma’ida: 46)

   We believe Jesus is a Prophet not a Son of God…..there is only one GOD….he has no SON…

   People of the Book. Do not go to excess in your religion. Say nothing but the truth about God. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only the Messenger of God and His Word, which He cast into Mary, and a Spirit from Him. So believe in God and His Messengers. Do not say: “Three.” It is better that you stop. God is only One God. He is too glorious to have a son! Everything in the heavens and in Earth belongs to Him. God suffices as a Guardian. The Messiah would never disdain to be a servant to God, nor would the angels near to Him. If any disdain to worship Him and grow arrogant, He will, in any case, gather them all to Him. (Holy Qur’an – Surat an-Nisa’: 171-72)

   Now let me show you some other proofs from the Holy Qur’an…

   Here are a few scientific facts from the Holy Qur’an, that no one could have known 1400 years ago…

   Scientific Fact # 1 – THE RELATIVITY OF TIME

   Today, the relativity of time is a proven scientific fact. This was revealed by Einstein’s theory of relativity during the early part of the 20th century. Until then, it was not known that time was relative, nor that it could change according to the circumstances. Yet, the renowned scientist Albert Einstein proved this fact by discovering the theory of relativity. He showed that time is dependent on mass and velocity.

   However, the Qur’an had already included information about time’s being relative! Some verses about the subject read:

   . A day with your Lord is equivalent to a thousand years in the way you count. (Qur’an, 22:47)

   He directs the whole affair from heaven to earth. Then it will again ascend to Him on a Day whose length is a thousand years by the way you measure. (Qur’an, 32:5)

   The angels and the Spirit ascend to Him in a day whose length is fifty thousand years. (Qur’an, 70:4)

   The fact that the relativity of time is so definitely mentioned in the Qur’an, which began to be revealed in 610, is more evidence that it is a Divine book.

   Scientific Fact #2 – THE IDENTITY IN THE FINGERPRINT

   While it is stated in the Qur’an that it is easy for Allah to bring man back to life after death, peoples’ fingerprints are particularly emphasized:

   Yes, We are able to put together in perfect order the very tips of his fingers. (Qur’an, 75:4)

   The emphasis on fingerprints has a very special meaning. This is because shapes and details on everyone’s fingerprint are unique to each individual. Every person who is alive or who has ever lived in this world has a set of unique fingerprints. Furthermore, even identical twins having the very same DNA sequence have their own set of fingerprints.105

   Fingerprints attain their final shape before birth and remain the same for a lifetime unless a permanent scar appears. That is why fingerprints are accepted as a very important proof of identity, exclusive to their owner. The science of fingerprints has been used as a non-erring identity determination method.

   However, what is important is that this feature of fingerprints was only discovered in the late 19th century. Before then, people regarded fingerprints as ordinary curves without any specific importance or meaning. However in the Qur’an, Allah points to the fingertips, which did not attract anyone’s attention at that time, and calls our attention to their importance. This importance has only been fully understood in our day.

   Scientific fact # 3 – THE LAYERS OF THE EARTH

   One item of information about the Earth given in the Qur’an is its similarity to the seven-layered sky:

   It is Allah Who created the seven heavens and of the earth the same number, the Command descending down through all of them, so that you might know that Allah has power over all things and that Allah encompasses all things in His knowledge. (Qur’an, 65:12)

   The information in the above verse is confirmed in scientific sources, wherein it is explained that the Earth consists of seven strata. These, as scientists have identified, are:

   1st layer: Lithosphere (water)

   2nd layer: Lithosphere (land)

   3rd layer: Asthenosphere

   4th layer: Upper Mantle

   5th layer: Inner Mantle

   6th layer: Outer Core

   7th layer: Inner Core

   The word lithosphere is derived from the Greek word lithos, meaning stone, which is a hard stratum forming the Earth’s top layer. It is quite thin in comparison to the other strata. The lithosphere under the oceans is still thinner, and is a region with volcanic activity. Its average thickness is 80 km. It is colder and harder than the other strata, and therefore, forms the earth’s shell.

   Below the lithosphere is the stratum known as the asthenosphere, from the Greek word for “weak,” asthenes. This layer is thinner than the lithosphere and shifts. It was formed of hot, semi-solid substances capable of melting when exposed to high temperatures and pressure over geological time. It is thought that the hard lithosphere floats or moves over the slowly moving asthenosphere.23 Under these layers is a high-temperature layer some 2,900 km thick, made up of semi-solid rock known as the mantle. This contains more iron, magnesium and calcium than the crust, and is also hotter and denser, because temperature and density in the Earth increase with depth.

   At the centre of the Earth is the core, approximately twice as dense as the mantle. The reason for that density is that it contains a higher proportion of metals (iron-nickel alloy) than rock. The Earth’s core consists of two parts. One is the 2,200 km thick liquid outer core, the other a 1,250 km thick solid inner core. The liquid outer core provides the Earth’s magnetic field as the planet rotates.

   The truth of this similarity between the sky and the layers of the Earth, only identified by 20th century technology, is without doubt another of the Qur’an’s scientific miracles.

   Scientific Fact # 4 – BLACK HOLES

   The 20th century saw a great many new discoveries regarding celestial phenomena in the universe. One of these entities, which has only recently been encountered, is the Black Hole. These are formed when a star which has consumed all its fuel collapses in on itself, eventually turning into a black hole with infinite density and zero volume and an immensely powerful magnetic field. We are unable to see black holes even with the most powerful telescope, because their gravitational pull is so strong that light is unable to escape from them. However, such a collapsed star can be perceived by means of the effect it has on the surrounding area. In Surat al-Waqi’a, Allah draws attention this matter in this way, by swearing upon the position of stars:

   And I swear by the stars’ positions-and that is a mighty oath if you only knew. (Qur’an, 56:75-76)

   The term “black hole” was first employed in 1969 by the American physicist John Wheeler. Previously, we imagined that we were able to see all the stars. However, it later emerged that there were stars in space whose light we were unable to perceive. Because, the light of these collapsed stars disappears. Light cannot escape from a black hole because it is such a high concentration of mass in a small space. The enormous gravitation captures even the fastest particles, i.e. the photons. For example, the final stage of a typical star, three times the mass of the Sun, ends after its burning out and its implosion as a black hole of only 20 kilometres in diameter! Black holes are “black,” i.e. veiled from direct observation. They nevertheless reveal themselves indirectly, by the tremendous suction which their gravitational force exerts on other heavenly bodies. As well as depictions of the Day of Judgement, the verse below may also be pointing to this scientific discovery about black holes:

   When the stars are extinguished, (Qur’an, 77:8)

   Moreover, stars of great mass also cause warps to be perceived in space. Black holes, however, do not just cause warps in space but also tear holes in it, as astrophysicists put it. That is why these collapsed stars are known as black holes. This fact may be referred to in the verse about stars, and this is another important item of information demonstrating that the Qur’an is the Word of Allah:

   [I swear] by Heaven and the Tariq! And what will convey to you what the Tariq is? The Star Piercing [the darkness]! (Qur’an, 86:1-3)

   Scientific Fact # 5 – THE WEIGHT OF CLOUDS

   The weight of clouds can reach quite astonishing proportions. For example, a cumulonimbus cloud, commonly known as the thunder cloud, can contain up to 300,000 tons of water.

   The fact that a mass of 300,000 tons of water can remain aloft is truly amazing. Attention is drawn to the weight of clouds in other verses of the Qur’an:

   It is He Who sends out the winds, bringing advance news of His mercy, so that when they have lifted up the heavy clouds, We dispatch them to a dead land and send down water to it, by means of which We bring forth all kinds of fruit… (Qur’an, 7:57)

   It is He Who shows you the lightning, striking fear and bringing hope; it is He Who heaps up the heavy clouds. (Qur’an, 13:12)

   At the time when the Qur’an was revealed, of course, it was quite impossible to have any information about the weight of clouds. This information, revealed in the Qur’an, but discovered only recently, is yet another proof that the Qur’an is the Word of Allah.

   Scientific Fact # 6 – RAIN IN MEASURED AMOUNTS

   Another item of information provided in the Qur’an about rain is that it is sent down to Earth in “measured amounts.” This is mentioned in Surat az-Zukhruf as follows:

   It is He Who sends down water in due measure from the sky by which We bring a dead land back to life. That is how you too will be raised [from the dead]. (Qur’an, 43:11)

   This measured quantity in rain has again been discovered by modern research. It is estimated that in one second, approximately 16 million tons of water evaporates from the Earth. This figure amounts to 505 trillion tons (505.000 km3) of water in one year. This number is equal to the amount of rain that falls on the Earth in a year. Therefore, water continuously circulates in a balanced cycle, according to a “measure.” Life on Earth depends on this water cycle. Even if all the available technology in the world were to be employed for this purpose, this cycle could not be reproduced artificially.

   Even a minor deviation in this equilibrium would soon give rise to a major ecological imbalance that would bring about the end of life on Earth. Yet, it never happens, and rain continues to fall every year in exactly the same measure, just as revealed in the Qur’an.

   The proportion of rain does not merely apply to its quantity, but also to the speed of the falling raindrops. The speed of raindrops, regardless of their size, does not exceed a certain limit.

   Philipp Lenard, a German physicist who received the Nobel Prize in physics in 1905, found that the fall speed increased with drop diameter until a size of 4.5 mm (0.18 inch). For larger drops, however, the fall speed did not increase beyond 8 metres per second (26 ft/sec).54 He attributed this to the changes in drop shape caused by the air flow as the drop size increased. The change in shape thus increased the air resistance of the drop and slowed its fall rate.

   As can be seen, the Qur’an may also be drawing our attention to the subtle adjustment in rain which could not have been known 1,400 years ago.

   THERE IS SOOO MUCH MORE….people today are still finding scientific stuff from the Holy Qur’an…

   To learn more….

   http://www.harunyahya.com/miracles_of_the_quran_01.php (Miracles of the Holy Qur’an)

   http://www.harunyahya.com/the_Quran_leads_the_way_to_science01.php (Holy Qur’an leads the way to science)

   What an interesting name for the second book (Holy Qur’an leading the way to Science, most people would think the opposite)

   It is the book of God……and God is telling us what he expects from us….if he says homosexuality is wrong…it clearly is…..just cuz u believe it is not…doesn’t mean that is the Truth…

6. Hey Steve,

   I seen some of your replies to the other people who posted…you bring up a few point I want to talk about…

   One is about homosexuality in the Animal Kingdom……first of all, we are not animals, we are humans…….and the theory of evolution has collapsed…..we didn’t come from apes…that is a FAIRY TALE………but second thing is…we are given intellect….why are we taking “how we should behave” from animals whose behavior is based on INSTINCT, not INTELLECT……..there are animals that eat their crap….why don’t you do that? So therefore we can’t compare ourselves to animals….

   You have stated that we don’t know what God wants, because we haven’t met him and asked him……well lets put it in human terms….if i don’t meet someone personally does it mean he doesn’t expect something from me….e.g. a boss of a company, who has made a book of rules for all of his employees to follow….since you didn’t meet the boss….doesn’t mean you are not expected to do something…..God does expect things from us….cuz he has revealed it to us……in the HOLY QUR’AN……it is the only holy book on the face of the planet that challenges people to PROVE IT WRONG or CREATE SOMETHING SIMILAR TO IT…we can go more into detail with it

   I am looking at all this without emotions……

   Some other guy posted talking about that all behavior is learned….i disagree……i do believe that some are learned obviously, but not all….we do have a moral compass (conscience)……….we are born with innate abilities…..e.g. a baby knowing how to cry…..no one taught him….e.g. a bird knowing how to make a nest without taking nest 101, or a spider making a web without ever seeing or learning how to………this is Innatism.

   You talk about tolerance, love and stuff…….are you tolerant of criminals? What is some criminal hurts you are your family, will you still show him love, why or why not?

   Then people make up rules to answers like this such as……unless you are not hurting someone……first of all where did that rule “not hurting someone come from”……..see people don’t think DEEPLY……..

   You can’t define morals without a GOD……I wanna see someone try…

   And for people who say it doesn’t hurt someone…it actually does……if u think DEEPLY ABOUT IT…..it hurts society indirectly…..

   for e.g. fornication…….it is destroying society, diseases are being spread, kids being raised by single parents (having a huge negative psychological effect on the kids), etc.

   Homosexuality is having a bad effect as well………think about it……you see you have break down things to see it…….what if everyone became GAY/LESBIAN…….it would stop procreation……which logically proves the ACT ITSELF is WRONG…….ya you could say on the larger scale that everyone won’t become a homosexual….but that is not the point……..the point i am trying to make is the more it spreads, the more it affects the future of the human race………i didn’t even bring religion yet…

   Holy Qur’an says it is wrong….so if you are such a critical thinker…..then you would logically that the only to disprove the rule is to prove the Holy Qur’an wrong…….and if you can’t, in reality you won’t….you have to accept everything the book says………simple as that……..we do know what God wants……

   1. Mohammad,
      The theory of evolution has collapsed? How did you reach that conclusion? I don’t know a single scientist that would agree. Your deep rooted belief is inspirational, but to dismiss basic science is not logical. And if you’re right about what you said, you have just told 2 billion Christians they are wrong. Here’s my critical thinking question for you: do you have information that the rest of us don’t have? I don’t think so. Your answer is an emotional leap of faith, not a logic-based fact. You still may be right, but none of knows for sure because we all have the same information to make a judgement on. Don’t mistake wishful thinking for critical thinking. They are not the same thing. Those are my thoughts. I’ll give you the last word.

7. The whole gay vs. straight marriage issue is one of incentives. The federal government uses the tax code to incent certain behaviors (i.e., have children and raise them in an intact, two-parent household). The intended incentives to raise children in an intact, two-parent family have produced societal tension because the same time politicians who incented citizens to marry, also incented them to have less children (high FICA taxes). Additionally, the courts have pressured state legislators to make divorce easy, thus making the institution of marriage a virtual sham. With the push towards universal health care and a shift to a more liberal understanding of family, society has seen a gradual lumping of all types of family units into the same social pool. Intact, two-parent families are the lifeblood of tomorrow’s social program entitlement revenue, yet the government incentives for raising tomorrow’s FICA taxpayers in intact, two-parent families is considered by some to be discriminatory. When non-children producing family units secure the same federal benefits as children producing family units, you have a government created free-rider problem. If it is important to do what is fair, I suggest scrapping social security and Medicare, get the federal government out of marriage entirely, and allow both gays and straights to pool their social insurance risks with whoever they want. Rather than giving couples who don’t have children the same benefits as those couples who do, I recommend scrapping all government social programs entirely and letting citizens form social insurance alliances with whoever they want. This is the “fairest” way to treat gay and straight couples the same, and it would dramatically help our national deficit.

8. If a five year old child steals candy in a grocery store and is caught in the act, the child will hide the candy behind their back and deny taking it because the child knew it was wrong to take it. Generally, a five year old child has not yet been told by their parents “now when we get into the store, don’t steal anything.” I believe that’s called basic instinct. I also believe we are all born with a sense of right and wrong. That is called our guidance system and that, I believe is what’s being debated here on this blog.

   When Melissa Boston said, “Once I accepted who I am everything else in my life has followed suit”, she said she feels whole and complete within herself because she decided to be herself. Her sexual preference might be born within her, and it might just be that she chose a lifestyle for herself that fits her. Either way, as it has already been stated here, the real issue comes down to love vs. hate; tolerance vs. acceptance and people being so emotionally charged about the gay and lesbian community that it really has become a question of what God thinks about it.

   “Truth” be known… no one really knows what God thinks about it but if we are to look to the bible to find our answers, we must not overlook the message that Jesus came to share and that was simply to love one another.

   I think I’ll take Jesus’ advice over a public opinion poll any day.
   I wonder what the world would look like if we could all put down the hate.

   1. Lisa,
      Thanks for your comments. I especially like what you said about no one really knowing what God thinks. If I had a nickel for every person in audiences around the world who told me exactly what God wants, I’d be a lot richer. The Bible is not a history book, but a book of faith, and i think alot of people miss that. I don’t know for sure, but my guess is Jesus and all the other spiriual leaders would show love, respect and tolerance for Gay’s, Lesbians and all the rest of us. The claims that are made in the name of God were made by men, not God. And I agree with you 100% that the world would be a better place if we could simply stop judging and put down the hate. Is it that really too much to ask?

9. The funny thing is that one man’s objective view is not like another’s. Human beings are emotional, driven by perceptions, ideas, biological factors, environments. So in my opinion throwing out all those influences and trying to determine if something is black or white is impossible. I believe that a true objective view would be to try and take in as many of those ideas possible and then determine their relevancy.

   Take for example the moral compass vs homosexual idea. Why can’t the moral compass be biological and the homosexual behavior be taught? If polls indicate that people were born homosexual, but memory only goes back to ages 4-5 roughly, is it possible that experiences beyond someone’s memory may have triggered a homosexual response? Is sexual orientation a behavior pattern or biological? Or is behavior pattern and biological factors the same thing in the end and we don’t know it?

   And then in order to change our ideas, wouldn’t we need proof? But if proof is unattainable, then how are we to reach a conclusive decision? Besides, even if proof were attained it is a guarantee that not everyone will believe it anyways. It’s quite a complicated process we have here!

10. I think that some people are born gay/queer, some choose to be gay/queer because they prefer their own gender emotionally and/or romantically and then there is a 3rd group which are those that simply love people, PERIOD. Meaning some people don’t delineate whom they fall in love with based on gender. However, society labels everything. Instead this third group falls in love with the soul inside of the “body suit” regardless of whatever gender they are. I personally think the latter is the most beautiful concept in the world. If we were all blind and could fall in love based on connection vs sexual organs, WOW imagine how different life would be. Some would mistakenly refer to this as bi-sexual but this is not accurate. Why? A bi-sexual person might say something like “I like both genders equally because they both offer unique relationship perspectives”. Those who base their relationships on pure soul connection would not say they like both genders equally. Because It has absolutely nothing to do with being attracted to their gender but instead to who that person is as a unique individual at a soul level.

11. Wow Steve, you’re really starting to get into a whole new arena. Perhaps you want to get into the controversy business. I did hear you say in the speech workshop that if you want to get attention just put out a controversially subject, kind of like your die fat book.
    I think if you want to remain successful in the speaking business and have the respect from your followers you will need to stick to blogs that help others with their speaking opportunities.

    1. Patrick,
       I think you misunderstood. Creating controversy is not the goal of the speaker/thought leader in a particular field of expertise. Controversy for the sake of controversy means nothing. My expertise is not public speaking; it’s mental toughness and critical thinking. I teach the Bill Gove Workshop to continue Bill Gove’s world-class legacy. Thats what he asked me to do before he died. What I do for a living is help companies learn to think critically by learning how to seperate their emotions in decision making. The purpose of taking on controversial issues is because the first thing people do is lash out emotionally and label their thinking as logic/reason. It’s easy to make decisions through logic when you don’t have strong feelings about them, but the businessperson who can seperate logic from emotional thinking when they have strong feelings has one of the greatest skills you can master in business. Thats why companies pay millions of dollars every year to learn this skill.

12. Lots of good post and nothing I can add that would change someones mind on this subject.  I will say we all know right from wrong.  If we’re born with anything we’re born with a moral compass.  The choice is ours after that.

    Today’s relativism is a scary slope to head down.  Facts are facts and Truth is Truth.  What ever has been stated in the comments above you know the Truth.

    Most Grateful,

    Ward D Lyon

    God’s goal for the non-believer is conviction of sin so we’d run to his love.  God’s goal for the believer is conviction of His love so we’d run from sin.

13. The core question is “Do gays/lesbians choose to be so,” correct?

    In my opinion God exists, and so if that be the case it is a fundamental part of his plan that families are created and that the human race continues so that all His children have a chance to come to earth. In order to do so, a family is created between a man and a woman. God would never actively do anything or choose anything contrary to his own will, so to say that God willfully made someone homosexual is impossible. He never wills us to sin.

    However, He does allow us sin. There is a difference. Just like He lets people die, and He lets down syndrome babies be born, and He lets innocent people be wronged. Does this mean He’s not just? No, it means that we have things we have to overcome to one day return to Him. So whether it was a short in a neuron that made them that way, or a personal choice, in the end it is still not what he wants us to do, and it is our job to overcome it. That is my view, coming from someone that believes in God.

    So what about if homosexuality is right or wrong? Well in my opinion as unemotionally possible as I can make it, it doesn’t make logical sense for science OR for religion. Religion is obvious, but what about science?

    Think about it. Darwin proposed the theory of evolution, where creatures evolve and grow to better face their environment and continue living, forming new species through natural selection. Well, that would mean that the growing trend of homosexuality would just be another phase of evolution right? But if it were to theoretically continue to affect everyone, and eventually everyone on earth were to “evolve” into purely homosexual beings, then the entire human race would eventually go extinct. The natural selection that would have created this “new” species wouldn’t last very long. Is this evolution?

    Whether my arguments carry validity or not doesn’t really matter, for in the end they are just my ideas. The only possible way to ever get truth would be to ask God about it and receive an answer…

    Why don’t you try it? He does answer prayers.

    1. Michael,
       Homosexulality exists all over the animal kingdom. It’s not new and has nothing to do with evolution. Read some of Alfred Kinsey’s work and you’ll see what I’m talking about. Thanks for your comments.

14. @ Zak Klemmer

    You said: “Individuals should be free to live their life so long as they do so without using force or fraud against another human being.”

    I wonder why we can’t use force or fraud against another human being? Why do I have to obey this rule? Say I desire to do something wrong which would involve using force or fraud in my self-interest, why not do it?

    People who claim you should live your life anyway you want, shouldn’t add a rule or exception after that because you can’t prove the rule….

    Like for e.g. you said don’t use force or fraud, what if someone uses that to get rich, and say he can get away from the law, why shouldn’t he do it?

    You can’t give me a true solid answer without bringing God in….

    Morals/Laws can’t be proven without a God…..try it……what solid answer can you give me?

    E.g. If a person could get away with a $1000 without anyone finding out, and say he knows who it belongs too, but knows he can get away and will never get caught…..should he return it? Why?

    If you don’t bring in God and his moral laws, you can never prove that the best answer is for him to return it….

    Without God and his moral laws, the best answer would be to keep the $1000, because he becomes richer (Self-Interest Situation)….if he doesn’t do that….he made a dumb choice with a LOSS……

    Unless the person believes in a God, which would mean that there are God laws to obey, which includes “Not Stealing”…then that would be the best decision, better than his DESIRE, this decision would definitely be in his BEST-INTEREST (because if he disobeys, he has committed a sin, and if he doesn’t repent and change his ways, God would punish him for it)

    Say if people were allowed to do whatever they want without any rules, it will cause havoc in this world….so much chaos and destruction…….

    We need to follow rules and laws…….not man made cuz they could be BIAS…..but follow OBJECTIVE TRUTH…….and only GOD could tell you what those laws are, not humans….

15. I DONT HAVE ENOUGH FAITH TO BE AN ATHEIST!!!
    Therefore, because I believe in a creator I believe He has clear instructions for living an abundant life. With that said my opinion is,
    Lets say “youre right Steve” they were born gay, they had desires to be with their same sex and they did. Even if that were the case, in my opinion its not that God made them that way it is that we are all born into a fallen world. Now that being said as a boy and young manI made many bad decisions and I could have said I was born that way, is it true? Of course not I had just given into my desire to do things that were wrong! But its easier to say that I was born that way to feel good about oneself! I get it! i would probably say the same thing as humans why always let our minds lead us to justify our actions to fit our best interest.
    However, when I came to believe in God a creator and the Bible which is undeniable I made changes toward what God wanted and the desires to do those wrong things changed and I live a better life.
    My opinion and talk about controversial is, if people who are gay would let Gods Word do its work, they too would find that what they see as being happy being who they are pales in comparison to being who God wants them to be. YES, I said it cause Im all for being tolerant to gays and lesbians, but with all the love in the world, you dont know when your time is up, and being gay is a lifestyle contrary to Gods will he has condemned and you could talk to all the people in the world and do a survey and convince yourself you are right, but when you stand before that throne and His Word is there, you will stand alone (Steve) and you will not only be judged for what you did but for what you didnt do. So whether we want to or not we are preaching our belief on this blog and these words we type we will give an account for and you need to know…
    Whether you were born that way or whether you chose it,
    if you believe in God and His Word the greatest deception is to believe that you have any part in His kingdom. Give it a fair try, dont be gay and obey Gods Word and if its not that way no problem you go back to what you were doing. Yes, Im going to say that because no one else will.

    1. Carlos,
       How did you arrive at the conclusion that the Bible is undeniable? Is that a statement of objective fact or a statement of faith? The Bible is not a book of history; it’s a book of faith. Any biblical scholar will tell you that. So the premise of your argument is flawed. You still may be right, I don’t know and either do you because neither of us have met God and asked Him. The point of this post and this blog is using mental toughness and critical thinking devoid of emotion, and anything that requires faith invokes emotion. Logic and reason are unemotional, and thats where world-class decisons are made. (in my experience) Your thoughts?

16. I enjoyed Clement Lisitski posting!

17. Absolutely nothing I can disagree with there, Steve.

    Fantastic to have you in the UK (although it looks like you managed to find one of the less interesting parts of it to film next to) – and you’re right the Indy (the local name for the Independent) is a great paper.

    In the UK, gay people may enter into something called a civil partnership which includes a ceremony and confers the same legal rights as marriage. This is likely to become a civil marriage in the eyes of the law in the next few years.

    It’s interesting to note that a religious group – The Quakers – have helped lead the way on this issue (they already recognise and will perform same sex marriage ceremonies). Clearly there isn’t a universal interpretation of God and the Bible which suggests gay marriage is in conflict with Christian beliefs.

18. Yo Steve,

    I caught myself grinning as I listened to the closing seconds of your video. You know I love to spar with you and I’ve had a pretty good guess of the up and coming topics you’d choose! I knew this one had to pop up sooner or later. LOL! I’ve been out of town; just got back and just from looking through the list of posts here, I can see why you had that cryptic chuckling knowing the responses you’d get. 🙂 I can see a crescendo building up to the release of this book you have coming out.

    Coming from the religious background I do I have had the opportunity to address this topic on an ecclesiastical level as I have had to work with gays and lesbians in issues they faced, I work with them in my profession, and have lived by them. I did my own research on the “born with it” claim and here’s what I found out long ago:

    I spent some time interviewing a prominent social scientist who spent years of research on the topic and he said that he and his team of researchers found not so much as a scrap of evidence supporting any biological framework that someone is born with biological tendencies toward homosexuality. To date, no biological or scientific evidence has been presented supporting that claim. If there has been, perhaps you can enlighten me. The realm of psychiatric diagnosis can’t be dependable because it would consist of a vote from the American Psychiatric Association and that would only leave us with theory. I also have a cousin that works in the Illinois state prison system as a psychologist and in his discussions about all sexual orientation issues he claims from his experience with inmates, all of it is a choice and he was adamant about it. Then there’s Dr. Phil who believes same-sex orientation is biological–but based on what–I don’t know. Whom do you believe? It’s truly a highly charged subject indeed.

    I’ve known prostitutes who believe their actions are biologically based and prefer their “lifestyle.” I lived in Belgium and France for two years and prostitution is legal in Belgium–they got their rights. I know of pedophiles who also claim that it’s inherent to their make up–they feel they need that sexual orientation. From the folks I’ve worked with that are same-sex orientated–few of them ever told me they were born with it and felt it was a choice–a discovery–so my “audience” of same sex participants are not consistent with the claims of those in your audience. I can go further and tell you that those who engage in extra-marital affairs also claim to have inherent feelings that “drive” them to do what they do. Using the same standard, if I allowed myself to entertain the temptation to be “drawn” to another woman outside of my marriage, I could easily jump on the bandwagon of rationalization and claim the urge was inherent or natural and who’s gonna disprove it? So far Steve, both you and I have responses from these people that are purely subjective claims with no scientific evidence to back them up. Again, we’re left to debate with opinions, conjecture, and subjective bias. However, your claim of “delusion” was not presented with fact and remains soley an opinion at best. That’s okay, you’re still a nice guy and fun to watch….

    I’ve lived on both sides of the planet and worked with perhaps as many people as you and on sometimes intimate levels. From what I’ve witnessed, I have concluded that it is a choice. Granted, there are psychiatric issues that affect people, but I’m speaking in the generalities aside from those. The more prevalence that same-sex orientation has, the more it becomes fashionable, and even trendy; the more you’ll see it emerge and a chasm will widen in society over it. Religion aside, it quite often boils down to the issue of right vs. wrong with people, irrespective of their religious affiliation. The gays I know just don’t want to be put on a guilt trip about it. The question is, who’s really doing the guilt tripping? Where’s that coming from?

    I can guarantee you one thing though–this topic will NEVER be resolved and society will forever be divided over it. The trick my friend, is how we work with it. Inferring that heterosexuals are delusional is not the answer. Homosexuality is here to stay. So is prostitution. So are sexual predators. Do we attack those who are against homosexuality? That’s discrimination as well. Or do we find ways to get along while agreeing to disagree? I don’t think the term “delusion” fits the premise.

    As far as your claim for declining church attendance–I’m not sure what religion you’re referring to, as the church I belong to is growing at a phenomenal rate and attendance is steadily climbing by a healthy six figures annually. I get the impression from the pieces I’ve put together from your past comments that you’ve had a bad experience with religion somewhere along the line and it defines your perspective on all creeds. In some ways, I’ll bet you would probably be surprised that I would agree with your reasons but not in the way you’d expect–just a hunch I have.

    The religion I belong to does not agree with homosexuality, but it does extend it’s outreach to help them–they are not turned away as some infer that religions do. I align myself with my religion because I enjoy it–it works for me and is very pro-family. I like it because of the results it produces. Same sex orientation erodes the fundamental basis of the family unit and I’ve had a front-row seat to see it in action. But I don’t hate or mistreat someone who does choose that lifestyle and the leaders of our faith admonish us to reach out to them. Ironic as it seems though, there are those who feel religions should be democratic, but if the belief of any religion is theocratic, why should it yield its position if it doesn’t want to? Religions also have the right to believe the way they want to believe as well!

    Case in point: If a faction of speakers got together and told you they wanted you and Dawn to change the rules of how the Bill Gove Speech Workshop worked and it was contrary to the founding principles that Bill Gove established, and they worked against the BGSW system, would you be inclined to acquiesce? Not likely. So why should various religions be held in contempt because a group based on sexual orientation feels religions should change their tenets for them? Is that not discrimination going the other way? Discrimination can go both ways.

    I have my beliefs about the topic, but I also believe that those who choose to be of same sex orientation should not be discriminated against in the sense of mistreatment or loss of civil rights. Civil unions do need some legal protection for rights of survivorship and other related pertinent issues. Rallies of same-sex groups who want organizations or religions to change for them is an imposition upon those who don’t want to be aligned with it. Are they not forcing their beliefs and way of life on those who don’t want it? The pendulum can swing too far the other way. If we’re going to give “special” privileges to same-sex agendas that have sexual orientation as their core, then why not prostitutes, pedophiles, and adulterers? It’s still sexual orientation at the core and it is a choice for them as well–they could argue for the same claims! Legalized marriage or not, people still unite and co-habitate under common law–nothing prevents them from having the relationship of their choice.

    I may not agree with homosexuality nor would I ever engage in it, but I can work side by side with someone who is (and I do) and find common ground to get things done. They have the right and free agency to live how they want to and I respect that in anyone as long as their choices do not voilate the rights of others. I sense you may argue that “organized religion” violates their rights, but I would disagree. I see the same sex agenda going after religions and wanting them to change to fit an agenda contrary to how they believe based on your premise now and some in the past. We must be careful to not propagate the idea that same the same sex agendas have the right to force others to believe the same way they do. I have the right to live and align myself with those who I prefer, they have the same right. We can come together on things needing to be done and put differences aside. How we do that is the true question worth asking and I think it can happen as long as hatred is taken out of the equation.

    I’m just not sure how to interpret your definition of “delusion” because it wouldn’t stand up to fact based scrutiny on all levels with how you presented it here. I don’t think all people who disagree with your premise are delusional.

    You and I may not agree on all topics, but you are so doggone fun to tease, jab and spar with. I enjoyed watching your blood pressure rise and vocabulary stiffen when you got passionate about your opinions when I attended the workshop.

    Let’s do lunch my friend. Bring Dawn. And please tell Dawn to let me know how Mainstage went, okay? I still haven’t heard.

    Ken

    1. Ken,
       It doesn’t take a scientific study to uncover the truth about how gay/lesbian orientation. Simple logic says ask a gay or lesbian. That’s what I’ve done for 25 years when i started speaking out for gay rights. I’ve never had a single gay person tell me he/she chose to be gay. Who would consciously chose a sexual orientation that you will be hated, disrespected and called a sinner your whole life?
       Think about it: did you choose to become a heterosexual? I doubt it, and I’ll bet you’ll never find someome who chose heterosexuality. Sexual orientation is a biological predisposition that exists all over the animal kingdom. Your claim that there is no scientific data on this is false. The Kinsey institute has been studing this for years. This is why saying gays choose homosexuality is delusional.
       As far as gays trying to get the church to change, all they are asking for is to be accpeted as equals and be allowed to marry. Is that so much to ask? As someone who belongs to a small minority religion that endures as much discrimination as any other I know, I’m surprised you’re not more accepting of another minority. What am I missing here, Ken? Have I misrepresented your position?

19. I disagree, we are the product of our choices about our tendancies. As a married man, I choose to be faithful and commited to my spouse. It is a choice I make. If I did not make this descision, there are days I would not be faithful. The responsibility lies with me.

20. Steve, a great topic for critical thinking and there have been a lot of great comments.

    I have done some thinking about this and I have a very different idea for your readers to think about. I suggest that the problem here in the United States is that our local governments adopted a religious rite and put it into law. The State should not be recognizing “marriage” by issuing marriage licenses and performing marriages. This is a violation of the separation of Church and State. Instead without any change in the legal description and rights that go along with this type of contract the name should be changed to a civil union. If, once a couple is license to join in a civil union they can chose to have ether a civil proceeding, or to have a religious ceremony. If the religion they practice is accepting of same sex marriage than they can get married. If not, than they can have the civil ceremony.

    Everybody has the same rights and responsiblites, and each faith can decide for themselves whether or not to extend “marriage” to same sex couples.

    I’d like to hear what you and your readers think about this.

21. I think rational thinking requires us to see that some choose it and some simply don’t.

    We have to recognize that if one person ever has chosen homosexuality for exploration, on a dare, or for any other reason (don’t focus on my reasons offered–hear the point), we’ve already proven that the argument that advances the exclusivity of “choicelessness” is a myth. All it takes to dismantle the absolute is to find a single exception. Let’s not be base enough to think there are no exceptions throughout human history or perhaps even in San Francisco today of a single individual who chose the lifestyle and didn’t just respond to biology.

    I’m less concerned about who can choose, who did choose and who didn’t and more concerned that people are treated, regardless of their demographic (race, age, sex, etc) equally. One of the chief issues that I see is that we’ve empowered civil government with way too much authority that they even (particularly at the national level) think it lawful let alone reasonable that they could ever be the arbiters of such issues. Government doesn’t belong in the marriage business–or a number of other businesses for that matter.

    God Bless Everyone,

    RR

22. Your argument is nothing new or mental toughness. It is excusing a behavior that nature itself says it is wrong. The reason they say that they did not choose to be gay is their rational or excuse to be gay. They would never be gay until they have sex with the same gender. If they never had sex they would not be gay. It is a choice they make. It is not genetic or God did not make them that way. Rome 1:12-18. Are adulters born that way or did they choose to have an affair. Your argument could cover any behavior. Are theives born that way? Are terriorist born that way.

23. Whoa Steve–cutting edge critical thinking question. Your mental toughness message several days ago had to do with Truth vs. Fact. Part stated — “In mental toughness, we make the distinction between truth and fact. Fact is absolute and cannot be changed. Truth is our perception and can be altered in any way we choose. The critical thinking question is; “is this perception helping or hurting me?
    So what is truth here — what is fact? I think many previous posts based their positions on their version of “truth.” In my opinion some of our truths are programmed. Or what ‘program’ do we want our brains to run? What’s comfortable? And what consensual reality do I want to be a part of?
    I have a number of gay/lesbian individuals that work for me. They are great people that serve our customers in no less capacity than my staff who are oriented otherwise.
    I used to believe that gay/lesbian lifestyle was wrong based on what I was taught — a truth — not fact. I chose to change this belief.
    I don’t think any of us are born Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist or whatever. We’re taught to be that way. We’re taught and programmed to discriminate and even to believe that one way of “religious” belief is better than another.
    Oh my…

24. @ Hey Jaroslav,

    I wanted to reply to your earlier comment,

    “If there really is a God who is all, created all and allows all… then I take the position that since HE in HIS infinite wisdom hasn’t struck down all the gay/lesbian people on the face of HIS Earth yet… at the least, I might want to keep an open mind about them.”

    Here is the answer from the Holy Qur’an…

    If Allah were to punish men for their wrong-doing, He would not leave, on the (earth), a single living creature: but He gives them respite for a stated Term: When their Term expires, they would not be able to delay (the punishment) for a single hour, just as they would not be able to anticipate it (for a single hour). (Holy Qur’an – Surah an-Nahl 16:61)

    Basically meaning that a person will have to pay for their sins when they DIE (unless they accept the TRUTH and ask for repentance for their sins)….this life is a test, you can either choose to do whatever you want or follow God’s path……but once you die, you will then know whether you passed this life or failed it……

    This life is a TEST to see who is BEST IN CONDUCT (and only GOD can show you what morals are)…….I know about God because it talks about him in the Holy Qur’an, if you don’t want to believe in the Holy Qur’an and do whatever you want, you have to do one thing…..PROVE IT WRONG….and if you can’t prove it wrong…..then you know in your heart that you need accept everything it says, otherwise you are only fooling yourself……

    Let us use that example you gave in something else….I know lots of people who give this example, but it is wrong….like say for e.g. a Killer, how come GOD didn’t destroy him? Why are some still in jail and some still free in society? The reason is that DEATH will be the end of your TEST…then you will be tested…….and there are no second chances….no coming back to EARTH…..(proof: You don’t see people come back after they die, where did they go?)…There test is over…….

    So ya the point I am trying to make is just cuz you don’t see that God has punished those people, doesn’t mean they are not doing wrong…..how many people you see everyday doing wrong things…why didn’t God punish them?

    Therefore that is the wrong way to look at it……..we have a appointed term (Life)….and then the test will be over (DEATH) we will have to be accountable for what we did (Judgment Day)…………Reward (Heaven)………Punishment (Hell)

    Simple as that………

    @ Melissa A Boston

    It is good to see that even though you are a Lesbian….you admitted that you weren’t born that way….so thanks for saying the TRUTH…

    Even though I do not agree with some of your behavior (homosexuality)….i agree with some of your other values such as Honesty in this matter……..

    You might get offended by what some people might say about your beliefs like on this post….i am pretty sure most of them are against the behavior and not the actual person.

    I accept you as a person, a human, just like anyone else but i do not accept some people behavior, not because of my will or desire but because of our creator (GOD)…….his desire or will becomes mine……..the meaning of a Muslim is actually “Submit your Will to God”…

    Like i even accept Criminals (if they are willing to learn and hopefully change themselves for the better, but i don’t accept their behavior if it goes against God)……

    So if you want to know about Islam or are curious about it or if anyone else is, on this post…you can talk to me……i will be glad to help and talk to anyone……i don’t like debates….i like discussions….

    I CARE MORE ABOUT WHAT IS RIGHT INSTEAD OF WHO IS RIGHT !!!

25. Great post Steve!

    I think whether it’s a choice or not, it makes for an absurd debate. Love is love and hate is hate. These fundamentalists… you’re not born believers, you choose to become believers based on the evidence you’ve been presented. You’re not born discriminators, you choose to think that way. It’s all a choice. Does that make it wrong?

    And what does the bible really say about it?
    Homosexuality: mentioned 12 times
    Hatred: mentioned 21 times
    Adultery: mentioned 52 times
    Self-righteousness: mentioned 79
    Idolatry: mentioned 169 times

    Does the bible offer answers to everything? What does it about slavery? Totally do it. What does it say about multiple wives? Absolutely do it. What does it say about people committing sins? Put them to death. Is that the kind of book that solves the problems we have today? You’ve been had. You’ve been misled and suckered into spreading a hatred that weakens our humanity.

    Steve, I know you’re taking a lot of heat for this post, amateur mudslinging I guess. But I truly appreciate your coaching. Thank you for your material on meta-cognition, introspection, creativity, problem solving, love based consciousness, staring down the dragon, etc. You are an intergalactic thought leader. Keep up the great work!

26. Steve,
    I love your work. But you have so many logical errors here that if there were “Thought Police” you would have your license to think revoked!
    1. A relatively trivial error: you speculate that intolerance in this matter has led to church attendance declining. If so, then we would expect that the more tolerant (i.e. “liberal”) mainline churches would have higher attendance than the “intolerant” theologically conservative denominations. But the opposite is true. Throw out that theory.
    2. “Nobody chooses to be gay”? So here we have you–“Mister Responsibility”–who has been known to debunk those who claim that they are victims of their “alcoholism” and the general “diseasing” of American society decide that all of us are the “innocent victims” of our sexuality. Baloney. Of course we have impulses–just like the impulse to eat too much sugar or fat. Of course males all have impulses to have sex with as many partners as we possibly can. What causes this is up for grabs. The real question is what we Choose to Do with our impulses–whether to eat, to be lazy, to steal, to work, to spend more than we make, or to indulge our sexual impulses. If you want to say that it would be kind and loving to refrain from cruelty to people on the basis of their impulses, great. But to say that we have to treat all choices in behavior as of equal moral value simply does not follow logically. And no one discriminates against any of us for our impulses; they can only react to what we DO with them.
    3. Marriage is a social institution. It is not “sanctioned romance.” Socially it is primarily for raising the next generation of society’s members. The privileges historically accorded to married people are supports for that effort. Aside from extraordinary technological methods, homosexual unions are intrinsically sterile, so they don’t merit the same benefits.
    Please don’t put a blanket label of “intolerance” on those of us who believe that traditional social constructions have validity. We generally don’t seek to restrict private behavior inside bedrooms. But we are not eager to overturn millenia of established customs, and force everyone to toe some trendy social line just to avoid being called “intolerant.” If need be, I for one will continue to think for myself even it it does lead some people to disapprove of me. I suggest that those who find the expression of their sexual impulses to be of paramount importance do the same–and stop trying to eat their cake while still having everyone’s approval, too. As the old Spanish proverb says: “Take what you want,” quoth God, “and pay the price.” Don’t insist everyone else pay the price for you.

27. For a discussion on critical thinking, l see lots of opinions, but very little facts based on real evidence. Even though this is a very emotional and political issue, please ask yourself these questions:
    If homosexuality is biological and therefore as natural as heterosexuality, where is the CLEAR & OBVIOUS scientific evidence? Plainly there is none.

    Logically, a mindset, belief system and the corresponding behavior has to be a choice, just like any other belief system.

    Plus if you study human history and all the animal kingdom, you clearly see that this behavior is against nature. In The animal kingdom, homosexual behavior could not exist, since homosexuals cannot replicate their species.

    If you believe that we came about by evolution, then homosexuality has to be a choice, not biological, since homosexuals cannot reproduce after their kind and could not exist if the behavior was not a choice.

    If you believe that God created man, then after reading His Word (the Bible), you quickly conclude that homosexuality is a behavior that is condemned (called sin). 1 Cor.6:9 – God classifies homosexuality as a sinful behavior that will send someone to hell just like any other sexual deviation (adultery and fornication, etc)

    How do you argue with this evidence?

    Plus If homosexuality is now normal and not a sexual deviation, what about any other sexual orientations like (sex with children, sex with animals, etc.) is that also natural and not a behavior that is chosen or learned?

    What is now a sexual deviation?

28. I’m absolutely stunned by the blog responders who:

    1. Know God and what he wants.
    2. Know what is right and wrong for the world.
    3. Claim that God “hates”.
    4. Think “the media” is responsible for giving Muslims a bad name.
    5. Say we were either “created or evolved” but not both.
    6. Advocate business discrimination.
    7, Say that God has an opinion… and claim to know what it is.
    8. Think that Steve is encouraging people to “buy into pop culture.”

    I want to state right up front that, “I don’t know anything.” But it does appear to be true that planet Earth supports all life without prejudice.

    If there really is a God who is all, created all and allows all… then I take the position that since HE in HIS infinite wisdom hasn’t struck down all the gay/lesbian people on the face of HIS Earth yet… at the least, I might want to keep an open mind about them.

    BTW if God really exists and is: “ALL THAT IS”; I mean, if God is everything you could possibly think of and everything that is unthinkable as well, then maybe… just maybe… he’s an asshole who doesn’t really give a rat’s ass about what any of us think.

    Blessings and Be Well,

    Jaroslav

29. Not tolerance, Steve. It should acceptance. There’s a difference. Tolerance implies that you really don’t like the issue or person, but you will deal with them as best as you can. Acceptance is says I like you. It’s ok. I’ll support you.

30. To Melissa Boston – Bravo! Well said 🙂

31. Oh my goodness! Thank you Steve! There is a reason I look up to you and respect you as much as I do. I couldn’t have said it better myself if I tried.

    I was exposed to the fundamentalist church early in my life and I raised my kids in a fundamentalist environment because I thought it was the right thing to do. It took years for me to wake up and realize that I made that decision for one reason only; my own irrational fear based thinking. I honestly thought if I didn’t raise my kids in the church, I would pay for it on judgement day, and ultimately, I would set my kids up to face the same fate on the day of their judgement. The unforgiving, non tolarant judgemental people we find in church today are the very reason I stoped attending and tithing to the church I attended faithfully every Sunday for years upon years. And guess what. I really don’t think God is mad at me for breaking away.

    I have grown spiritually, have expanded my mind and have made a tremendous shift in my life that I think brings more joy to God now than it ever did over the years I spent in church going through the motions and living within the judgements and rules that go along with other people’s perception of how Christianity and church life is supposed to be, simply because I was afraid not to.

    On the contrary. I am awake and aware and I believe God created and entire human race. I also believe that God is unconditional love and only HE knows the answers to all the tough questions, not us. I believe we are called to be tolarant and loving and when we’re busy judging and acting like we know all the answers, we show our ignorance and we only end up hurting ourselves.

    Thank you Steve. Great topic!
    Namaste!

32. So much for the Critical Thinking, UnEmotional, discussion. I was born a Lesbian and have loved my partner for 28 years. We hide when we need to hide and are out when we can be out. Unfortunately, this is the way the world works. Not everyone has love in their hearts…as you can see from some of the prior posts.

33. Our opinion of homosexuality does not determine if its right or wrong. The only opinion that matters is God’s opinion. The Bible, the Koran, the Tora, Buddhism, Hinduism and on and on all condemn homosexuality. We don’t get a chance to vote on morality, its defined by God. It is absurd for you to inject this topic into your marketing strategy. By doing so you are obviously going to polarize your following and many like me, will lose respect for your mentorship and move on.
    Is your speaking business slipping so badly that you have to stir up controversy to gain attention? Or is it possible that you are paving the way for you to come out of the”closet”? Either way I wish you the best and that you seek professional marketing advice, because you really blew it this time.
    Mike Logan

34. I forgot to clear up the “bad rep”Muslims get in the media….

    Many people have dis image that Islam teaches Violence, u hear dis on the media and everything, but dat is completely false….If u study the Holy Qur’an, u would understand how peaceful the religion is, it wants u to be the best moral person u could be…..now if u doubt wat i am saying, i can further prove my point…

    one is that Islam is the second biggest religion after Christianity, the #1 most rapid growing religion in the world…now u have to ask urself why would people want to join something dat is Evil?

    Do you think many people want to be a part of a violent, evil religion? Why are people running towards Islam?

    After 9/11, that year many people converted to Islam….why? I personally think most people tend to be generally good people, so why would people wanna join Evil?

    They can just join that religion known as Satanism….

    Now here is something interesting to think about….there are around 1.8 Billion Muslims in the World….so dat means 1 out of every 4 person is a Muslim….imagine if we were all killers, do u think any other religion would have honestly survived? And if we all were suicide bombers, do u think humanity would survive?…….something to think about…..

    The media is brainwashing people…..just like the thing with GAYS AND LESBIANS……..

    Now u mite ask why would they do that (there are quite a few reasons such as political, economic etc.)….like for example if Islamic rule comes in the world, some people will lose a lot of money bcz Islam is a beautiful religion that wants great morals to spread thru society, so dat means if Islam comes, businesses such as nightclubs, strip clubs, casinos, the porn industry, pork in the food industry, alcohol stores, immoral tv shows, music videos and movies and much more will all cease to exist…because these things cause immorality and corrupts society….There would no homosexuality since it is forbidden in the Holy Qur’an….

    Islam is not a violent religion, but there are a few people who do terrorist acts and make the whole religion look bad……but religion can never be judged by a person’s actions…like Hitler was a Christian, and he was responsible for killing millions of Jews (a huge terrorist act), but i can’t blame Christianity for that…cuz Christianity doesn’t teach it…so ya Islam doesn’t teach terrorism at all, in fact it is against it……i for one wouldn’t be a part of any religion dat teaches to be evil and stuff…

    Here is a link to an article talking about how many people became Muslims after 9/11, u can even search up Google for other articles, i think the main reason dat many people accepted Islam was, when the 9/11 attacks happened, some people were surprised how could a religion so popular teach such a thing, and for the people dat studied Islam and the Holy Qur’an themselves, realized the truth, realized that it actually is a beautiful peaceful religion, while others accepted the media propaganda and turned against us…

    http://www.riseofislam.com/islam_in_america_02.html

    Here is a book called Islam denounces Terrorism, which has verses from the Holy Qur’an to prove that Islam wants peace in the world, and not evil, or corruption or all the wrong stuff that media says about us….

    http://www.harunyahya.com/terrorism1.php

    So ya the MEDIA Corrupts us…….they are putting in people’s minds that homosexuality is right and that there were born like that……..

    Ok if you wanna play that game….what is the person was born a rapist, a thief or a killer? Should he be punished then?

    No one was born gay or lesbian just like people weren’t born a rapist, thief or killer…….it is something you CHOOSE to do……because of your wrong DESIRES, your wrong FANTASIES !!!

35. I am a Lesbian and here is what I know about myself, I was not born homosexual or anything else. It has become more and more event that I have created the person I am, as well as, all the things I want in and don’t want in my life. Once I accepted who I am everything else in my life has followed suit. But what was there to accept? I am the one who has shaped and put together who I am, so it was a given that I would accept me!!! Who I am begins with in and is manifested without. What seems to happen from my observation, is that people concentrate on changing the outward instead of creating inwardly what they want to have outwardly. Acceptance is an inside job! If we draw into our lives that which we are, then you will not have to worry about being accepted because you will draw the people, the atmosphere, the situations and whatever else you are seeking into your life. If you do not truly care about yourself then no one else will! I don’t care about someone else’s perception of me because I know it is misdirected!!! They just want to feel good about themselves but do not think they know how to go about it. It’s simple be true to yourself, fill yourself with the characteristics you want, fulfill your needs, wants and desires!!! Hell, create them!!! Stop caring about what others think about you, you have the right to live who you want to be period!!! Stay in your own backyard don’t try to step on someone else’s creative process for themselves, you could not anyways if they are truly true to themselves. Respect and honor all the same way you want to be respected and honored… For me if it don’t flow I won’t go, translation; anything forced will soon be divorced!!! Well,stay true! Peace, love and happiness and I wish you all the best………..

36. Well I am a Muslim, and Muslims get a bad rep in the media, but i still CHOOSE to be a MUSLIM because I believe it is the TRUTH !!! You said who wants to live their life being discriminated against? Well I believe Islam is the Truth, I don’t care how much people discriminate against me, Truth is Truth…

    I love critical thinking…now here are some questions for you….

    How about Incest? If you think Homosexuality is right based on two people’s intention/consent to be together that means Incest should be right (if two people had intentions to be together)…Something to think about…

    Underage sex should be right too on the same basis (no matter how young they are, they could still consent or have intentions to be together)…so why does Law have a problem with that?

    Now here is something very interesting to think about…….You can’t prove morals without a GOD……..think about it……it can’t be proven….

    e.g. If a person commits a crime, say he STEALS… and he says he is RIGHT, then who are you to say he is wrong (since you both are humans, you both are the same)………you can’t prove he is WRONG……

    Just because the law says STEALING is wrong, is it actually wrong? (because humans made law, and we know humans are prone to making mistakes, therefore that law could be a mistake)…e.g. many countries have different laws that oppose each other…..so what is the ACTUAL TRUTH?

    LAWS/MORALS can’t come from human consciousness, it has to be something higher which is a GOD…

    Homosexuality is a deviation from man’s natural self and as such is clearly forbidden by religion. It must not be forgotten that Satan orders people to “change God’s creation”. (4: 119) He will try to lead man away from his nature and into perversion, one of the most extreme examples of which is homosexuality. God reveals in the Holy Qur’an that Lut’s people practised this form of perversion. Despite Lut’s invitation to follow the righteous path, they persisted in perversion and denial and became subject to God’s punishment. The verses say :

    And Lut, when he said to his people, “Do you commit an obscenity not perpetrated before you by anyone in all the worlds? You come with lust to men instead of women. You are indeed a depraved people.” The only answer of his people was to say, “Expel them from your city! They are people who keep themselves pure!” So We rescued him and his family – except for his wife. She was one of those who stayed behind. We rained down a rain upon them. See the final fate of the evildoers!
    (Holy Qur’an, 7: 80-84)

    Now you might ask why I believe in the Holy Qur’an while there are so many other religions? Well I don’t blindly believe anything…….

    The Holy Qur’an stands out than any other book……it is CLEARLY the TRUTH…

    Will they not ponder the Qur’an? If it had been from other than Allah, they would have found many inconsistencies in it. (Holy Qur’an- Surat an-Nisa’: 82)

    There are no errors in it, not even one single error has been found, it is preserved by God……….people claim they found a few….but look at it in context, they are clearly wrong…

    There are so many Scientific miracles that many we are just discovering today, and this Holy Book was revealed 1400 years ago…..how is this possible?

    I can keep going on and on….

    I believe that most people are following their DESIRES instead of the actual Truth….you aren’t born gay or lesbian, you CHOOSE IT……..

    Fornication is wrong….then why do so many do it? ONE ANSWER: DESIRE

    If you followed your DESIRES, that could lead you to EVIL…….what if you had the urge to hurt or kill someone? Should you do it? This shows that not all desires are good………and there is a reason for that…

    By the soul and the One Who proportioned and inspired it with knowledge of depravity and with its sense of duty, he who purifies it has succeeded, he who covers it up has failed… (Holy Qur’an, 91: 7-10)

    This life is a TEST……..

    EVIL is not far off as people think….things like stealing and murder….they are extremes…….but things common in culture are also evil…

    EVIL is anything that is a SIN (Breaking God’s Law)….

    And look in society….Drinking alcohol, Fornication, Eating Pork, Adultery, Gambling, jealousy, greed, backbiting….etc.

    The purpose of life is to be the best moral person you could be….

    We made everything on the earth adornment for it so that We could test them to see whose actions are the best. (Holy Qur’an, 18:7)

    So ya… think DEEPLY about life….and if you are SINCERE, Allah will guide you Inshallah (God-Willing)….Allah means God in Arabic (it is not just a Muslim God or anything like that)…It is the ONE TRUE GOD….

    For people who think God is not real……then who created YOU? You certainly didn’t create yourself, you had no say in who were going to be your parents….you can’t even look at your own reflection in the mirror….that is HOW WEAK YOU ARE…..your parents didn’t create you……they couldn’t choose how you were going to look like….

    We should define GOD….i think the best definition that most of us could agree on is…”God should be a power greater than a human”…

    Here is a good example…

    If you see a web, you know a spider has created it. You see a nest, you know a bird has created it. You walk into a room and you see a telephone, a computer, a television, you know that a human made it. You walk outside, and you see the sun, the moon, the clouds, who created that? We know as humans, we didn’t create it, and we know animals and insects didn’t create it. If humans didn’t create it, that must mean a power greater than a human exists. Whether you want to call it God, Nature, the Universal Spirit, Infinite Intelligence, whatever you call it, it is a power greater than a human. And what is the definition of God we are using? “God should be a power greater than a human”.

    Sorry it is long, just had to get my point across and make you think deeper……it all comes down to what God has decided, if he says Homosexuality is wrong….then it is…..He knows best !!!

    For people who want to learn more about Islam and the Holy Qur’an…check this out…

    Some of the miracles of the Holy Qur’an that proves it is DIVINE and can’t be from a Human…

    http://www.harunyahya.com/miracles_of_the_quran_01.php

    May Allah (SWT) guide us all to the TRUTH !!! AMEN !!!

37. Babies are born with cleft palettes, or maybe crossed-eyes, or Downs’ Syndrome; why can’t they be born gay or lesbian. OK, this is MY opinion, and that being said, the Lord wants EVERYONE in heaven and is very adamant that marriage is for a man and woman. A gay or lesbian should be loved and appreciated – I have a few good friends who are, but they should be celibate.

38. Steve,
    Intolerance vs. Endorsement
    Giving In to urges vs. Trusting the Lord to help us do his will
    Your will vs. Gods will
    Inerrancy of scripture vs. a lesser view
    You said your post is controversial actually it’s not controversial at all because you have stated the widely accepted opinion as 99% of the posts have supported it very few in opposition to what you said; that homosexuality is natural. That’s fine if you want to come up with an answer for everything in life that man has cooked up to explain that which we know in our heart of hearts is wrong then go ahead of course you want to sell allot of books and sell yourself so you don’t want to alienate anyone. But please Steve I have met you before don’t try to foist this on us and say your controversial. You may think you’re getting good publicity for your book but I think all your doing is aligning yourself perfectly with the World and in direct opposition to God and you know it. I am deeply disappointed with this post and with the responses that all fall in line with what the popular consensus says. This is why America is in trouble because of the Lack of leaders willing to do and say the Truth but unpopular things. Why because of the love of Money and Power and to get that you have chosen to come in alignment with the world. Fine but don’t come out and say you’re a believer in Jesus Christ if you’re goanna endorse homosexuality. Now this doesn’t mean I don’t love homosexual people the same as anyone else. However I don’t go against what the bible says. I’m not religious I am just more convinced of a God that created us and set up the rule book on what’s right and what’s wrong than I am convinced that human beings are the masters of our reality and in the driver’s seat to be the judge and jury on what’s wrong and what’s right. Frankly I don’t have enough faith to be an atheist. Since there is a God than it would follow perfectly that he has created time itself and has the ability to communicate to us from outside of our time domain. He can get us a specific message as he has in the bible the only book in the world that’s made up of 66 separate books written by 40 different authors who didn’t even know each other on 7 different continents without one contradiction. That in and of itself is impossible to contrive. Look at nature surrounding you its proof enough that there is a creator. You would never question that the watch on your wrist or the car that you drive in were created by humans. Then why would you question that you yourself that are so much more complicated than a watch or a car have been created by a creator who yes tells us what’s right and what’s wrong. Please Steve if your writing these posts to get people thinking you’re really encouraging them to not think for themselves to just buy in to the popular culture and what it says.
    Hope you have the guts to let this post be put up

    1. Clem,
       The Bible has no contradictions? The Bible is full of contradictions. The Bible is not a history book. It’s a book of faith written by men from stories, fables and anecdotes that were passed down over decades. Mental Toughness/Critical Thinking is about thinking for yourself as opposed to repeating what you’ve heard in school or church or read in a book. I’m not saying you’re doing that, because I don’t know. I respect your passion and belief, Clem, and I respect you persoanlly. But passing off an emotional leap of faith as critical thinking isn’t accurate. I’ve studied the Bible for years and I know what the Bible say’s; what I’d like to know is what YOU say, independent of the Bible. What conclusions have you reached? Or is it your position that we should let the Bible or God think for us? I’m not trying to be a smart ass, Clem, so please don’t read it that way. Sometimes it’s hard to interpret attitude in writing. I’m honestly and openly asking you for YOUR thoughts.
       I’ll give you the last word. Thanks for joining this discussion. I hope you guys are doing well.

39. If you use God and His standard in the equation of establishing whether a certain behavior is right or wrong, such as homosexuality – what better way than to see what God has to say about the matter. Clearly His Word states that homosexual behavior is indeed sinful. Now, there is only one thing left to do and that is to decide on what side of God’s Word do you stand.

    1. Beth,
       If this equation was as simple as you suggest, we wouldn’t have war, hate, bigotry or discrimination. It’s not. For starters, neither you nor I know what God believes. Just because it’s written in a book doesn’t mean God said it. Just ask Mohommad, who is a Muslim commentor on this blog. He’s a smart guy, and he’s absolutely positive you (and every Christian) is wrong. That means one of you is dead wrong, yet both of you are convinced you are right. This is the cognitive distortion emotional thinking creates. How about this: How about all of us agree that none of knows what God actually thinks or which or any religion has it right, and we just love one another and practice tolerance. Isn’t this what Jesus would do? Isn’t this what Mohammad (The Prophet, not the commentor) would suggest? We can still believe and express our faith, yet critical thinking tells us that ultimately we don’t know who God is or if he even exists. Either way, thats objective reality. Maybe someday we will all KNOW the truth about God. Until then, it’s just an educated (or uneducated) guess. Your thoughts?

40. Being an athiest and “tollerent” doesn’t make you a critical thinker. If you’re going to use Jesus as an example here, then you need to get it right. The Bible is VERY clear about homosexuality being wrong. That is not to say that we are to treat them wrong, because God loves the sinner but hates the sin. If then the Bible and Jesus himself say that it is wrong, and you believe that we were created and didn’t evolve, then you CANNOT conclude that homosexuals were born that way, because that would be saying that God goes against His own word.

    Also, since we are talking “critical thinking” here, why aren’t the critical questions being asked? You will find almost 99% of the time that people why identify themselves as gay have had MAJOR emotional events happen in their lives, such as abuse or emotional rejection with people You might want to look up the story of Guy Rodgers..

    I think you better think this all the way through before you mix up political correctness with critical thinking and “science.”

41. I know this is a touchy subject as is many other subjects, but it is exactly what we need to be talking about unemotionally. We always hear the prayers and wishes for world peace and no one seems to know how to have it. It is simple. Stop separating everyone out by religion, sex, race, nationality, and sexual preference. Every war and conflict has been started by something as simple as my God is better than yours, my country is better than yours. It is time we grow up and stop the man made misguidances and start living together in our world.

42. Steve,

    I couldn’t agree more with eveything you say here! Including the intolerance of many, many Christian people, who profess to “love one another”, yet not only criticize, but condemn those who are born different. Thank you for your “critical thinking” and open-mindedness.

43. Clear, unemotional, critical thinking is a beautiful thing, and thanks for pointing it on this subject.

    This is the simplest overview of this subject I have ever heard. Short and sweet.

    The next time gay and lesbian issues come up as a topic of conversation I will have some great questions to cut through the clutter with, thanks to you.

    Rock on!

44. I’ll say this – people who still think gays choose their sexual preference are wayyyy back in the dark ages.

    On the other hand, some gays feel they have to make the choice to stay closeted because of the terrible discrimination they could face, personally or professionally. Isn’t it sad.

    On the bright side, huge strides have been made over the past three decades or so that have helped the lesbian and gay communities in many ways. The people who have the delusions about people choosing the gay/lesbian lifestyle – maybe they are fearful for some reason – worries within of some sort. Who knows.

    One more thing – On the issue of church attendance and homosexuality – I am so proud to say the church I attend is open and very welcoming to all members of the human race. Unity, which is non-denominational and loving as any church I’ve seen, is frankly loaded with people who love all the reasons for going to church but have come to disagree with the church of their upbringing.

    The only time I remember having poor attendance is when the air conditioning broke down in mid-summer heat. 🙂

45. My field is neuroscience, Steve; and I can tell you every study points exactly to what you’re saying. It’s not a choice, it’s a tendency of your brain. Even more, it’s not a switch; which means you can be anywhere in between absolute maleness and absolute femaleness. Most of the population do match body and brain gender (still with variations) and some don’t (again, with variations). So, even if it makes some people uncomfortable (it used to make me uncomfortable), it’s time to see things as they are and grow out of it into a new, happier, more human and more evolved society.

    Some time ago I would have said “very brave, Steve”; but I feel that’s not what you’re going for. I think you’ll probably like better “very updated and objectively thought, Steve.”

46. As much as I want to comment I’ll wait until I see the video post to make sure I get the full meaning of this post. I live in an Apple world.

    I’ll be back!

    Ward D Lyon

47. After 20 years of marriage and 3 children, my (ex)husband was accused of molesting several teen boys over a period of years. I was shocked! I couldn’t believe it! We had a beautiful marriage. He had been a youth pastor and was now a pastor. He had a great career, and there was no question we would grow old together, happily. When it all hit the fan, I sat across the table from him as he tried to explain, while I was thinking, “Who are you?”
    This was in the 80’s and I could give you a dictiionary definition of homosexuality, but certainly did not understand it. So I tried to listen to him and tried to understand.
    Steve, he may be different from the ones you talked to, but he sat there and said the reason he was gay was because at 9 years of age he had been “recruited” into the gay lifestyle by an adult man in his life at that time. My ex went on to say that he did the same: “recruited” young males into a homosexual lifestye. He even told me the type of young male (young as 5 years old) that they looked for: boys who were dominated by their mothers.
    Of course, I’m only hitting the very tip of the iceburg of what he told me. I finally made him stop. I was hearing more than I wanted to hear.
    When my son asked him years later, “Then why did you marry Mom?” He answered, “Because I wanted children, and I thought she would make a great mom.” He couldn’t have hurt me more had he taken a knife to my chest.
    So, from a gay man himself, they are not at least all born that way.

48. Living in the epicenter of Gay America, Key West Florida, I have found this community to be the most loving and accepting of all people. The city has an Official Philosophy found on the bumper stickers of most vehicles here. “All People Are Created Equal Members of One Human Family.” It’s not just a saying, it’s a way of living and an example that the world can follow.

    Celebrate diversity. We learn so much by seeing another’s point of view. It may not be a view you share, but we all have a right and a responsibility to be the person we are born to be.

49. Lets call it a civil union. Anything but marriage.

50. Steve-

    Thanks you! Well stated and perfectly positioned.

    This is exactly why you are becoming one of the top “Thought Leaders” in the world. The fact that you aren’t afraid to make you thoughts and feelings known is a plus to us all.

    Keep up the great thinking!

    Darren

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